Tag: odin

icy-mischief:

xparrot:

This scene to me is maybe Loki’s most tragic moment in the movies. Because it’s one of the few times we see Loki entirely alone, not putting on a show or lying to anyone, so his panic and heartbreak are real.  And he reaches out to Odin – and it’s the reaching out that gets me, that moment where Loki hesitates to touch him – and then he when does dare touch, he almost immediately pulls his hand away, and maybe it’s just shock, but also – Loki was just holding the Casket, has just found out what he is; and he knows what a frost giant’s touch does to Aesir.  He’s scared to touch his father, scared that he might freeze him, hurt him further.

(The original script had him holding Odin, but this – this says so much about Loki, about what scares him, how frightened he is of his own self, and what damage he can do…)

YES. 

Source: previouslytomlinangel

Hey! What’s ur process on writing a kid loki/ Loki and Thor’s childhood but they’re more like young teenagers than young beans? Cos I’m trying to write something but I keep changing my angle from Odin was a dick nuff said and Thor and Frigga tried but still low-key terrible, to ppl were v misunderstood and Odin tried is best but made everything 10× worse. I’m also not trying to make Frigga perfect either but yeah… idk???

veliseraptor:

Oh man, the answer is very much “it’s complicated.” Also, I haven’t actually, I realized, written much set when Thor and Loki are young (though I’m working on one such fic now!), so much as I’ve written about it. And I think I think about it as a very complicated situation that’s kind of a perfect storm of messiness. 

I think, for instance, that Frigga tried hard but sometimes in trying to keep the peace she ended up making Loki feel like his frustrations and angers were inconvenient and his complaints imaginary or insignificant. And there’s also…the line she says about “we didn’t want you to feel different” – Loki clearly did feel different, and by pretending that he wasn’t (rather than teaching him to value his difference) it reinforces the idea that something is wrong with his being that, and the sense that he doesn’t belong. (Which makes the revelation that he is different on a whole other level hit even harder.)

Or with Odin – I think he had complicated feelings. On the one hand, I do think he loved Loki and wanted to be good to him. Though on the other hand I think it was hard for Odin sometimes to be a parent when he felt like he had to be more of a king. And there was also, I think, per the revelations in Ragnarok, the ways in which he saw in Loki some echoes of Hela. His magic, his drive, his determination (his choice of color scheme) – and, increasingly (as Loki turned toward closing off, toward bitterness and anger) his darkness. Which in turn made Odin more wary and suspicious, which in turn Loki sensed and distanced him from Odin. 

I wrote about the development of my thoughts on Odin and Loki’s relationship specifically in Birthright, and the rift that grew between them partly as a result of the secret Odin was keeping. 

“Why must you make things so difficult?” Odin said, again with too little thought, and Loki jerked. “I do not mean that you are difficult.”

Loki’s spine was ramrod straight and his chin lifted, stubborn and almost defiant. “I understand.”

No, Odin wanted to say, you do not, but he knew he had fumbled this conversation and it was likely beyond retrieval now. He looked at his son’s face, stubborn and hurt and above all distant – and that was the operative word of their relationship now: distant.

Somehow a gulf had opened up between them and he did not know how to close it.

And as far as Thor goes – that, I think, is the most complicated of all. Thor I think loved Loki, very much, and they were very close – but closeness between siblings often means that’s when they can hurt each other most. And especially when they’re very different, and very close in age, and have very different ways of communicating – that becomes even easier. Breakdowns in communication happen – Loki’s bad at communicating, and so in his own way is Thor. 

I think Thor tends to forget things quickly – he gets angry easily but also lets things go. Whereas Loki has a temper but tends to not forget things, ever, to kind of chew on them and slow burn until they come up months later. And then he would try to confront Thor, but by then Thor would have completely forgotten whatever had happened, and basically go “what the heck are you talking about”, and Loki reads that as Thor not thinking that Loki’s feelings are important. 

And that becomes a pattern, over time, and eventually Loki stops bringing his frustrations to Thor altogether, which just means they pile up over time.

Thor opened his mouth indignantly and then snapped it closed. His eyebrows furrowed. “How long?” He asked. “How long have you harbored this bitterness against me?”

Loki sighed. “Does it matter?”

“It matters to me.”

He turned and went back to the bed, lying down with one hand over his eyes. “If you are seeking some specific, significant, singular inciting incident,” Loki said, “There wasn’t one. It was not as though I adored you one day and hated you the next. A thousand small wounds can eventually bleed a warrior dry.” 

or, in another fic:

“Such was the way of things, Thor. What was everything to me meant nothing to you. I ought to have realized that an age ago, but perhaps I am as much a fool as you.”

It’s a piling up of things over time based on the way that this family communicates, or doesn’t, and Loki’s personality and how it doesn’t quite fit with others, and Odin’s fear of raising another Hela, and Frigga’s attempts to keep the peace at a cost she doesn’t realize. And Thor, who loves his brother but doesn’t always understand him, and Loki, who loves his family but has (I’ve always headcanoned) undiagnosed mental illness and so has a skewed perspective of both himself and how others see him, and tends to read the worst from any given situation. 

So yeah. My perspective is basically, like you said, “it’s complicated.”

My dad wanted to see Ragnarok and I was happy to see it again, so I ended up watching it again today and I liked it a lot more the second time–I think my biggest problem was that a lot of the serious/important/dramatic moments were almost immediately interrupted (and sometimes undercut) by jokes, but on a second viewing I already knew when the jokes were coming, so it wasn’t nearly as jarring and I was able to focus more on those serious moments, the characters’ expressions (by which I mean Loki’s expressions, yes, sue me), and the ways everything tied together thematically. So now instead of enjoying it as I watched but then unhappily fixating afterward on the things I didn’t like, this time I came out of it with a lot more appreciation for the story and the sheer style of the film, and also FULL OF LOKI FEELINGS. 

A few other observations under the cut: 

  • the more I think about Loki’s stupid play, the more I think it’s just REALLY SAD. like…he couldn’t get this recognition while he was alive so at this point he just kind of went “fuck it, I’m going to tell this story my way” and at least have fake versions of Thor and Odin saying what he always wanted to hear. (it’s also really interesting to me that Loki-in-the-play was even more specific in his apologies to Thor.) he’s dead but he’s controlling the narrative of his own life–including, apparently, the part about being a Frost Giant.
  • Loki was 1000% about to cry after Odin died and you will never convince me otherwise 
  • FOR REAL THOUGH Tom Hiddleston’s fucking face in this movie–I mean, always his fucking face, and the subtler aspects of his acting have always impressed me, but I noticed even more in this one because there were more scenes where he was present and reacting but didn’t have many/any lines, so he had to convey everything with facial expression alone. and holy shit did he ever.
  • okay I didn’t realize this the first time but the bit where Thor’s being introduced to Sakaar like it’s a super-trippy Disney ride? the music in the background? IT’S FUCKING “PURE IMAGINATION” FROM WILLY WONKA, I SHIT YOU NOT. YOU KNOW, THE ACID-TRIP SCENE ON THE BOAT, IT’S LITERALLY THE SAME TUNE
  • my first time watching, I noticed the two young women who pulled weapons as Skurge and the draugr army were coming toward the Asgardian refugees on the Bifrost, and I was ready for that to be treated in a really gross way–you know, “ha ha the little girls thinking they can do anything with their little daggers, isn’t it cute, now step aside so the menfolk can handle this” or whatever, and I was relieved when that didn’t happen. it wasn’t remarked on at all, in fact, letting them just be a couple more brave Asgardians ready to fight. what I noticed this time, though, was that I think those were the two Skurge was flirting with in his first scene–I’m not positive, but I really hope I’m right, because if that’s the case it adds a really interesting layer to the whole situation. they get more characterization and screentime, making them more than the way-too-typical thing of pretty women essentially being props for men to show off in front of. Skurge, who was showing off for them before, is now probably about to kill them, which forces him again to confront what he’s doing; on the part of the two women, they probably actually liked this guy or they wouldn’t have been hanging out with him, so there’s an aspect of personal betrayal…and rather than being shown crying and trying to hide or something, their response is basically “fuck you, asshole, we’re probably all gonna die but we will absolutely cut you first” and now I kind of want fic about them.
  • of course if I’m wrong and those two at the end are just two random Asgardians, this is all moot, so…again, I really hope I’m right, because it’s just a lot more interesting that way
  • Skurge in general had a nice, complete arc when he really wouldn’t have had to–he could’ve just been the basic character type of buffoonish heavy who didn’t give a shit about anybody else, but instead even he got to redeem himself with a deliberate, self-sacrificing choice at the end. Karl Urban did an amazing job too, of course, bringing a surprising amount of depth to the role just with his facial expressions. 
  • despite writing a little about it, didn’t really occur to me that Loki absolutely had options other than returning to Asgard–obviously I recognized that he made a completely deliberate choice when he came back to the ship in the end, but I didn’t really realize he made a bigger one before that (and, well, I wrote about what I think his reasons were and how he came to that decision). because…he didn’t have to go back to Asgard. Korg and his little army didn’t have any particular destination in mind, I don’t think, so even if Loki was going with them, he could’ve gone…anywhere. for that matter he probably could’ve grabbed a different ship and left by himself once Korg turned off the obedience disk. he didn’t even have to leave Sakaar–I was thinking probably he did because he didn’t have Thor to buy his way back into the Grandmaster’s good graces, but considering his earlier proposal to Thor about overthrowing the Grandmaster, he could’ve seen the revolution as the perfect opportunity to take control himself and just…rule Sakaar, have fun, be the new Grandmaster. hell, he probably could’ve convinced Korg etc. to fight for him and actually guided the whole revolution from there. and instead he made a completely conscious, deliberate choice to return to Asgard, help Thor, and save as many people as possible (his people, because apparently three years of ruling Asgard gave him some sense of duty and responsibility after all). that’s…pretty huge.  
  • obviously I don’t know for sure if that ship at the end is Thanos & co. but a) it would make sense considering Infinity War will be the next time we see Thor and b) judging by how much more immediately alarmed Loki looked than Thor did, I think at least he thinks it’s Thanos, which…ow